Welcome And Crisis Context

Tom Mueller 0:07

Hi everyone, and welcome back to the Leading in a Crisis Podcast. On this podcast, we talk all things leadership and crisis management. I'm Tom Mueller. Thanks for joining us again. On this week's episode, we're going to dive deep into a number of very meaty crisis management and leadership issues with our guest, who is Brian O'Hara. Now, Brian was the most recently was police chief in the city of Minneapolis here in the United States. Prior to that, he served as a public safety officer and working in municipal governments in New Jersey for about 20 years or so. So he brings deep experience in municipal government, local policing issues, which of course is one of the things that attracted him to this job in Minneapolis. But let me give you a little context real quick before I bring Brian in here.

Why O'Hara Took The Job

Tom Mueller 1:05

He stepped into this role during a very tumultuous period in the city's history. This was shortly after the death of George Floyd, which, as you will recall, generated mass protests not only here in the United States, but even in other countries around the world. So there was lots of community mistrust, anger, angst happening there in Minneapolis. And on top of that, there was an immigration and customs enforcement action in the city during his tenure, which further aggravated the community, led to additional protests. There was just a lot of things happening in this community. Brian, welcome to the show. And why would you take a job in that kind of chaos?

Chief Brian O'Hara 1:58

Thank you for having me, Tom. You know, um a lot of people have asked me that uh over the last few years. Um but I do believe um that the experiences that I had, both personally and professionally, growing up where I did and coming up through the ranks in Newark, um prepared me kind of uniquely for the situation that Minneapolis found itself in shortly after George Floyd was killed. Um Newark is a city that is very different from Minneapolis. Um it's much more densely populated, it has a much larger uh proportion of the population that has struggled uh with poverty. Um frankly, it's historically uh it has had decades of problems with both very high levels of serious street crime and violence, as well as very poor relationships between police and community. However, that is no longer the case today. Uh, it has been dramatically better over the course of this last decade. And the work that I was involved in there, both uh in police reform and advancing some community safety issues, I felt were directly transferable to the situation Minneapolis found itself in. Minneapolis is a very affluent city, uh, especially in comparison to Newark, very highly educated, very, very high standard of living in that state compared to other places around the country. Um, but they found themselves very suddenly dealing with uh an astronomical increase in violence at the same time while police officers were were fleeing uh by the dozens. And there were all sorts of calls for reform. I had led through uh reform efforts in the city, had led through efforts to bring down violence, had been a part of that uh during the course of my career. And so I felt like I had something to offer in a place that was hurting and in a place that was sort of the epicenter about all of these questions that people talk about in around policing in the United States.

Free Fall Inside The Department

Tom Mueller 4:19

So um, you know, the leadership challenge is clearly laid out there, right? Because you have a community that um is going through some difficult situations, there is a lack of trust in the police department, uh, elected officials and outside groups are just heaping scorn on your officers, on your organization. It was a very demoralizing kind of period. So, as a new leader stepping into that position, uh, how do you sort of balance that? You know, stopping the brain drain of officers leaving, but you know, building in reform and trying to deliver all of those things. It just feels like a huge challenge.

Chief Brian O'Hara 5:09

Yeah. Well, truthfully, I I didn't quite understand how much of a challenge it was, how bad the situation was until I had a few months on the ground in the job. The organization was literally just in free fall. Um the number of officers who had left, I think they had lost about 500 officers since 2020 when I came in as chief uh about two years later. Uh, and that is from a 900 officer department. They had 655 people shot the year before in one year, the year before I became chief, with only about 520 officers or so. So it was a sense of hopelessness, I think, among a lot of the officers that people had fallen back, uh, were not being proactive. There was a sense that you know we can't really push them too much because we can't afford to have anyone else leave. And like you said, uh I would say there was virtually no trust um between the police and and the community. So it it was difficult, um, but I think what helped was sort of learning um from both people in the community that were willing to speak and say what their experience has been, as well as the officers.

Change Versus Progress

Chief Brian O'Hara 6:31

Um I think one of the most dramatic lessons that I learned in this period um is about change and it's about organizational change. And I say that because when I was coming in, everywhere I went, whether I was talking to police officers in a station house or a community meeting in any of the city's neighborhoods, people verbally expressed that they wanted change uniformly. Um but what I got to understand after a few months in the job is what people were actually expressing, what they were verbalizing is they were they had a desire for progress. They wanted things to get better, but they didn't necessarily want things to change because as you implement change and do things differently, people experience loss. So I think that was a pretty dramatic lesson uh that I took away from the beginning.

Rebuilding Purpose And Hope

Tom Mueller 7:29

Okay, so you've you're getting some feedback from folks at least. So uh, Brian, how did you set your priorities uh when you're stepping in there? Uh, you know, there's still a lot of pressure out there to defund the police, was kind of the campaign that was going on. And of course, that would have demoralized your police officers and your force. I would imagine recruiting was probably not going well during this period for the police department. Um, so what was your sort of job one coming in there?

Chief Brian O'Hara 8:04

I think for the the situation that it was in, you sort of had to get back to the very, very basics of what the mission is, and the very, very basics of why we are doing this work in the first place. I think the officers themselves had lost their sense of purpose. Everything that they had dedicated, in some cases 30 plus years of their professional lives, all of the stories that they had been telling themselves about public service and how good the organization was it, overnight that was completely taken away. And that was very, very difficult for people to live through. And as you mentioned, um, they had just lived through a majority of the city council vowing to disband the agency. Uh, the politics of the moment uh were it was always overly politicized in the city, policing. And I think every time they heard an elected official at the dais speak about policing, they would hear things that their perception of what was being said was you are all killers and you're all racist. And one, that doesn't help us heal and try to move forward, but two, it also doesn't help us with recruiting. We were doing our best to try and recruit people from the city into the department. Um and just the the constant negative narratives that people were hearing were certainly not helpful. Uh, and so I think, you know, internally, some of the stuff I saw, I mentioned before, like the number, the the amount of violence was high at levels, the the highest levels it had ever been in the city's modern history. But there was also uh a normalization of that violence. There was a lack of urgency. And I think the same is true with some folks in the community uh that people had sort of lost hope. And I think, especially in positions of authority and in positions where we have some type of leadership, one of the most crucial, crucial things that we need to provide our people and our community is hope. And it's a sense of uh realistic hope and a sense that there is some sort of a path forward. Um, you know, I coming from the organization that I was in, we were very, very intense about measuring performance and responding to crimes and problems that community identifies urgently and following up. I was shocked to get there and see that the police were only meeting, the command staff was only meeting twice a month to talk about crime. And it was happening over Zoom. Uh, and it was one of not like a typical Zoom meeting that I had been used to during COVID. I mean, people had their cameras off and logging in and logging out and that kind of thing. And it just speaks to it's understandable because everyone is so deeply traumatized. Um, and and there had been that fear again that we can't push more people out. We have to come to the point where you say, What are we here to do in the first place? You know, which is and and simply communicate to that to people. Our mission is very simple. We're here to reduce crime while earning the community's trust, which is essential in law enforcement. We need the consent of our community to police and to reduce crime. But then we also have to rebuild the organization. Um, so those were the three things, the three pillars that I tried to commute for communicate repeatedly. And then I also tried to be present uh with employees in the organization. There was an I learned that there was an overwhelming perception that leaders uh in the past, during all of the civil unrest that they went through in 2020, 2021, that leaders either, well, it comes down to they felt like leaders didn't care about them. That was their perception, that they were not sufficiently present when bad things had happened or in the aftermath of that. Um, and it's just the I I have seen that over 25 years in policing over and over again. Um a perception that leadership does not care for their people. Um, and I think the same thing is true for those of us in public service uh in these types of positions. The community needs to feel the same way. We need to be present in the community as well. So, I mean, I think those are all things that are are really, really important and simple, but can be impactful.

Leading By Showing Up

Tom Mueller 12:46

Yeah, so the you know, I'm I'm curious about the, you know, just your your style for uh building up that trust, building uh the morale of the organization better. Was that uh did you do a lot of management by walking around? Were you out visiting substations, being very visible with the troops? How what was your approach on that?

Chief Brian O'Hara 13:11

Well, that that's it exactly in this organization. There had been a perception, and I I learned it myself, right from the first weekend when I got there. I was confirmed as chief, and then I had to wait till Monday morning to get sworn in. Um, but over the weekend I had learned that one of the precincts in the city that actually had the most violence in the city, because people had called out sick, only had one police car on duty, which was shocking. Um but what was even more incredible is when I got to the office Monday morning and was sworn in, no one in charge even knew that had happened. Um so there was a total disconnect between the front office, which is located in City Hall, and frankly is kind of treated the same as the Water Department or other entities that don't have the the level of you know seriousness that that policing does at that time. Um but also that they would just did not understand what the line members of the organization were dealing with at all, what they were experiencing. So just as you describe it, I did the best I could to be present at at roll calls, that's what we call them when the officers come in for their briefing. But it's difficult in an organization that's spread out over multiple precincts and in multiple shifts every single day. Um, so I would also go out on the street. I would take a marked police car out and go out with one of the officers and show up on calls um and and just try to be present. Um, because again, I felt like that was that was immune. And then, you know, people take that in different ways, and but you start to hear stories and you start to learn about um what is actually happening uh on the front line where it matters. How is the community experiencing policing uh in the city? And that's stuff that you're not gonna, it's totally detached from the best policies and strategic plans you can have. Um if you can see that things are not being implemented the way that they had been intended.

Navigating Media And Politics

Tom Mueller 15:20

You know, but you're fighting a daily information war, basically, right? You're trying to, you know, bolster the troops and build that morale. And I would guess on a daily basis, the local media were just beating on police officers and the organization and you know, citing, highlighting problems and issues because there was lots of people in the community willing to talk about all of that negativity. And uh so the I you know it just blows me away that the challenge that you face in that situation. Do you feel like some of the tactics you employed were successful and you were able to make some progress over your tenure there?

Chief Brian O'Hara 16:08

Yes, without question. Um, I mean, I think even for people in the city, um, it can be easy to forget um how dire of a situation they were in four years ago, just how how bad things had had gotten so quickly. And you know, it's interesting you you mentioned the media because you know Newark, New Jersey, where I had I had come up, um, is just it's in the shadow of New York City, as are so many other cities in a really densely populated metro. Um and so the media is the New York City media, that's the you know, the five major the four major networks and so on. So there isn't really much time to cover the nitty-gritty of what might be happening in the city of New York. Maybe there's a story here and there, and kind of that's it. In Minneapolis, Minneapolis is the center of everything in that part of the country, and they have the same four major networks, kind of with nothing else to do. Um, and and policing and the Minneapolis Police Department had generated so much um, you know, I guess, attention for them over the years that it just it continued to go. Um, and as I mentioned before, you know, I feel very strongly that um in my experience, policing had become so overly politicized, um, part of an ideology almost, to just be against the police no matter what they do, that it just felt like there was a constant, constant drive just to find any little thing, uh, just waiting for their any any mistake to happen, and then to try and find some angle about it. Can we say there's some you know racial issue or something here? Um it felt almost impossible at times. Um, it felt almost like we weren't kind of not in the same reality. Um, but that's just that's just the way things are. That's how the media can operate it. But it was it was a huge adjustment for me because it was so different from the media environment that that I had been used to.

Tom Mueller 18:20

Um and it's hard to win when you've got you know uh broadcast news, newspapers, exposes, all this stuff coming at you all the time. And um, did you have any allies there in the city? And the other question I wanted to ask is if you brought anybody with you in there, you know, in a lot of organizations where we've seen major turnarounds, new executive people come in, and they may bring one or two of their trusted people along with to give them a little buffer and some more ears in the organization. Did you bring anybody along or were you just doing it yourself?

Community Allies And Direct Messaging

Chief Brian O'Hara 19:03

Well, I tried to bring some people along, but I couldn't convince anyone to come. Uh so I was there by myself. But in in terms of allies, I have to say, um, the overwhelming majority, just overwhelming majority of residents in in Minneapolis and Greater Minnesota there were incredibly supportive. Um, and I know so many of them had been through so much themselves, um, and were just so thankful that we were trying to improve things. I think one thing I've learned consistently over the years is the community can tell who's serious uh and who's genuine uh about trying to provide a service and trying to improve. They can tell who keeps showing up. You know, what one of the points that I I one of the things I tried to do while I was chief is every time there was a homicide, I would go to the scene myself. Anytime there's a major incident, of course I would go. But that was very different from the standard practice there. I mean, the first uh murder I went to was on the Saturday after I got sworn in, um, Saturday just before noon. And the cops couldn't believe that the police chief was there, because nobody in charge ever comes to a homicide, and like he told me, unless the police are involved in it. Um so again, I mean, I you know, I did that because I saw a lack of urgency, like I mentioned, and I wanted to communicate that this is important uh and urgent, and that the whole of the organization should be handling this urgently, not just waiting until Monday morning to get a briefing. But also it's very important for the community to see somebody in charge showing up at the scene and showing up uh consistently as bad things happen, because this was such a this was such an issue of urgency in the public's consciousness that you know they understood that we wouldn't be able to solve every problem, but at least they wanted to see that somebody in charge is present, they got things under control, and there's a plan going forward. Uh, and and I tell you, the community there was so, so unbelievably gracious. I I have boxes literally of handwritten notes and cards from people in the community uh that are just so thoughtful um and generous. And I can tell you that's not something that's typical uh in in the Northeast here.

Tom Mueller 21:39

The residents who are supportive, you know, it's very heartening to hear that because from outside of the state of Minnesota, we weren't hearing any of that, right? We were just hearing the negative headlines, you know, the NBC Nightly News saying how terrible it was uh in the city. But it comes to the issue of knowing who your audience is and saying focused on them, right? Giving them the information they need to make decisions or to make you know their own trust evaluations. So how much of a focus was that in sort of talking to residents and that along the way?

Chief Brian O'Hara 22:26

It's absolutely necessary. And you have to be doing it uh yourself and you have to be proactive about it. And when I say yourself, I don't, you know, I mean both the the person, the leader, but as well as the the apparatus of the organization. You know, one thing I found disappointing at times um is just what can be a the performative nature of local government and local government politics. Um and we're often told uh you know that things happen and uh you know as a search for transparency or you know uh to to have uh a conversation so that things are brought out into the public. Um but then at times you you certainly experience situations where clearly you know um you know someone someone's just trying to make a scene that you might know personally that you've talked to this person about it and you have an understanding before this, but they're taking advantage of a situation before a camera uh to try and benefit themselves perfs personally. And and I think that's just one of the things that's kind of kind of out there today uh in local government politics. And then you also deal with the fact that you know you have local reporters there that blatantly have told me uh at times that, hey, we're not here to tell stories about the plane landing safely. So okay, you know, but uh you know, there there was a whole lot of positivity happening, and it was very difficult to get that out there. Um, and you had to find ways to do it yourself, whether it's social media and and video and that kind of thing. And also the same is true again within your organization. I I would send out uh I would send out video messages uh and give off updates to members of the organization because again, like it was just uh I felt like there was so much anxiety, so much trauma everyone had experienced. There was a desire to hear some credible message to make us believe that there's a way forward, that things are are progressing.

Wrap Up And Next Part

Tom Mueller 24:42

And that's gonna do it for this episode of the Leading in a Crisis Podcast. If you'd like to email the show, you can drop me a line at Tom at Leadinginacrisis.com. On our next episode, we'll continue our conversation with Minneapolis Police Chief Brian O'Hara, where he'll share additional stories about his experiences leading in a crisis. Please join us for that, and we'll see you then. Take care.