The Leading in a Crisis Podcast
Interviews, stories and lessons learned from experienced crisis leaders. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.
Being an effective leader in a corporate or public crisis situation requires knowledge, tenacity, and influencing skills. Unfortunately, most of us don't get much training or real experience dealing with crisis situations. On this podcast, we will talk with people who have lived through major crisis events and we will tap their experience and stories from the front lines of crisis management.
Your host, Tom Mueller, is a veteran crisis manager and trainer with more than 30 years in the corporate communications and crisis fields. Tom currently works as an executive coach and crisis trainer with WPNT Communications, and as a contract public information officer and trainer through his personal company, Tom Mueller Communications LLC.
Your co-host, Marc Mullen, has over 20 years of experience as a communication strategist. He provides subject matter expertise in a number of communication specializations, including crisis communication plan development, response and recovery communications, emergency notifications and communications, organizational reviews, and after-action reports. He blogs at Blog | Marc Mullen
Our goal is to help you grow your knowledge and awareness so you can be better prepared to lead should a major crisis threaten your organization.
Music credit: Special thanks to Nick Longoria from Austin, Texas for creating the theme music for the podcast.
The Leading in a Crisis Podcast
EP 53 CEO risks: from podcasts to crisis response, with Janie Jordan
The rise of long-form interviews has created a new challenge for executives trying to balance authenticity with strategic messaging. Communications expert Janie Jordan joins us to unpack why these seemingly relaxed conversations can actually be the most difficult media format to navigate successfully.
We also examine the rapid evolution of crisis communications through recent airline incidents, exploring how companies like American Airlines and Southwest Airlines have established new standards with CEO video responses issued within hours of an incident. But how 'out front' should your CEO be in a crisis?
Our host, Tom Mueller, was a PIO for bp during the Deepwater Horizon oil spill response, and relates his experience with CEO Tony Hayward during that incident. It's a reminder of how even well-intentioned executives can mishandle their communication role.
Listen now to gain valuable insights on preparing executives for both planned long-form interviews and unexpected crisis situations in today's unforgiving media landscape.
You can reach Janie Jordan at https://www.janejordan.com.au/
We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.
Hi everyone and welcome back to the Leading in a Crisis podcast. I'm Tom Mueller On our podcast today. We're continuing our conversation with Janie Jordan from Sydney, australia leadership coach, a strategic advisor and a high-stakes communications expert with many years experience working in the communications field. Today we continue our conversation and we're going to focus on long-form interviews like podcasts, the risks and opportunities that come with those and why it may not be right for every executive, and then we'll also talk about the role of the CEO in the crisis. We'll look at some recent airline incidents and get Janie's take on the executive communications around those.
Tom Mueller:Let's join the conversation now. You know, janie, there's another issue. That's around training. These days, I know media training programs. You know we're incorporating now the long form podcast interview as part of that and you know, and just giving participants an opportunity to feel the more relaxed atmosphere there, let your guard down a little bit and then potentially get yourself into trouble. So there is. You know it's very authentic way to communicate but, as we've said, there's still quite a bit of risk in that. So it's interesting to put people in that situation in a training environment and give them the opportunity to explore it a little bit. It's not for everyone.
Janie Jordan:Absolutely not for everyone. I think that's fantastic and that you're doing that. I haven't heard a lot of that happening here in Australia, actually, and I can. I always say when I was you know when, in my full on training days, as opposed to the coaching I do now and it was like for me people go, oh, print is easy, it's just like having a conversation I'd go, no, no, no, no, no. That's actually the hardest, that is the most challenging interview you will ever do. Tv is easy, you know.
Janie Jordan:I mean cameras are going to potentially maybe frighten you or you're going to be so aware and get tongue-tied because you're on camera, but all they're looking for is a clean grab. You give them a nice, clean sentence. The weather in Sydney today was blistering hot and we were at 40 degrees and the humidity was 100% right. That's a nice clean grab. They're happy. But when you're in a long-form interview like a podcast or like a print interview, even if it's just going online, there is risk everywhere, because you relax and the trained interviewer, the podcaster or the journalist can navigate or take you down a path to get you know a good, clean angle or something that's a bit spicy. It's going to cut through the clutter, get unique visits. It's tough.
Tom Mueller:Yeah.
Janie Jordan:They're very tough interviews and I think if you can nail a long-form interview, nail a print interview, you actually have real listening skills and you are performing at a high level, because it's a high performance level we're talking here.
Tom Mueller:It's the most authentic form of conversation now, that long form interview but you have to be on the ball all the time and it is, as you've said, a quite unique challenge because you want to be authentic. You have to be authentic in that kind of conversation, but you still have to stay on message and be interesting and all of that which, again, the fact that the politicians are embracing that now, I think, gives us a much better picture of them personally through those types of interviews.
Tom Mueller:Janie, one other thing I wanted to kind of just touch base with you on the crisis communications sphere, because we've had some examples recently of aircraft incidents here, in America and we've seen, you know, a variety of responses from the aircraft or the airlines to that, and one of the things that seems to be a best practice now among the big airlines here in the States is getting a CEO video out very quickly to express that care and concern, provide a bit of information, then to thank those who are responding and helping to resolve this situation, and we've seen a couple of really good examples of that with.
Tom Mueller:Southwest Airlines had an incident a few years ago where an engine exploded in flight and punctured a fuselage and killed a passenger, but they had a CEO video up within about four hours. And then I fast forward now to the American Airlines crash at Reagan National Airport in Washington DC. That collided with a military helicopter and American Airlines had a very, very well done CEO video up within just two to three hours of the incident. So it was a remarkable turnaround to get a CEO in the room, have a script, have them practice, deliver it and get it published within two to three hours of notification of an incident. That speaks well to the plan, but probably also of the CEO. What's your take on those?
Janie Jordan:I think that video is very, very powerful and it is what I'm seeing. A trend here is video, video, video in very many different channels. So my take on it is that that shows best practice. I agree with you. I think we are looking at best practice in that situation and, quite frankly, it should be. I mean, airlines are in a dangerous business but it's part of their operations. You know they've got to be prepared with those sorts of things because they're going to happen. They happen right. So I would go yes, it's best practice. It's fabulous that they had, you know, had the CEO out there with the right care and concern. It's almost like they need to be templated, because you don't know what the details of the incident is and, heavens above, no one would ever have thought that you'd have an army helicopter.
Janie Jordan:That crash was absolutely terrifying. I mean, that's a crisis for the air traffic controllers and department and every level really, because that is shocking, shocking. It was really hard to get your head around. So my takeover all, tom, is that it's a fantastic development in our practice and one that I think needs even more. It could really, if you that's possible, with the right training, the right preparation, to be out in an hour and I would go today we don't have. You know, the golden hour is about 15 minutes and I know, even for years and years, decades and decades of practice, shell has always said that if they can't get something out in 20 minutes, then something's wrong. And that was before this crazy social media age, this digital age we're in. So if you're in a high high risk issue, rich environment organization, then you have no excuse, not. You must be prepared, you must have plans, you must have your digital tools at the ready.
Tom Mueller:And your CEO or senior executive needs to be ready to turn it up and turn it on very quickly. But, janie, in your experience, how many CEOs out there can muster that level of empathy and that perfect delivery, like we saw with some of these American airline companies? Well, I think I could count them on one hand, and that's, you know, the CEO might not be your best spokesperson in a situation.
Janie Jordan:Very, very good point and one I feel quite passionate about, really, because it goes to you know quick news, breaking news. Who's going to be available at that breaking news stage? And, let's face it, tom, you don't want your CEO or the chair of the board stuffing it up, screwing it up. You know, because where do you go from there? So you know the head of operations. You know you want that person to be over, to be ready. Who's first on the ground. You know.
Janie Jordan:If you go back to what point point I was making earlier, contemporary modern practice anyone can declare a crisis. So some of the best spokespeople have been from the trenches. Because they know inside out, every single day, their operations. They are best equipped to quickly put something together and then you can escalate. You know after the news is out and then you can. You know, two hours, two, three hours is more acceptable If you've spoken out, got somebody out quickly within the first 15, 20 minutes. That's key. It might be something on X or you might have something you can vision, because the vision is the powerful one, and it's trust, because we can. You know, look in their eyes. Do I trust you? Do you really care? You've killed somebody, one's too many. So that's my take. So very few people get it right immediately, and you've probably seen that in the training room too, tom.
Tom Mueller:Yeah, and that's why you need to make sure your CEO and executive team are trained and practiced in crisis communications, because you never know who's going to be on duty at the time something happens.
Janie Jordan:So be ready for that? Yeah, absolutely.
Tom Mueller:And it's about, as you've said, janie, who brings credibility, and when you have a sort of very knowledgeable operations person at the microphone, they just naturally bring that. Of course, your CEO brings that because of the gravitas of the position. Yeah, but it can all go sideways in a hurry.
Janie Jordan:The poster child really for how things could go sideways in a hurry is. It was always going to be Tony Hayward in BP. You know poor man, but you know he is the post child of how not to do it.
Tom Mueller:Yeah, and that was during deep water horizon oil spill in the States. I worked as a PIO for BP's incident commander for that incident, and so I have a whole module I do now on the role of the CEO in a crisis, and Tony's a prime example of a man who cared very deeply but didn't understand his role and position. And that got him into a lot of trouble. Yes, so that'll be another conversation for us down the road. Janie is just that role of the CEO, because there's so much to cover there.
Janie Jordan:And it's very nuanced. A lot of this, a lot of what we're talking about here, is very nuanced, and when you're the leader of an organization and you think your communication skills and they should be you're leading an organization, you're leading the vision, you're motivating, you're leading your teams, but it's the nuance, isn't it, tom? That nuance, when the stakes are really high, the make it or break it moment in the role of the CEO is a critical one.
Tom Mueller:It is, but it's also sort, you know, sort of understanding your role, right.
Janie Jordan:Yes.
Tom Mueller:Stepping up to the microphone and pledging the resources of the corporation to make things right here, and then stepping back and saying let my operations people now tell you how we're going to do that.
Janie Jordan:Absolutely 100%. That is absolutely the playbook.
Tom Mueller:Well, I guess we'll stop it there, Janie. Thank you so much for taking time to join us on the podcast today. Really enjoyed the conversation and hopefully we'll get you to come back soon, one of these days.
Janie Jordan:Thank you, tom, I've enjoyed our conversation very much.
Tom Mueller:And that's going to do it for this episode of the Leading in a Crisis podcast. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you again soon for another episode.
