The Leading in a Crisis Podcast
Interviews, stories and lessons learned from experienced crisis leaders. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.
Being an effective leader in a corporate or public crisis situation requires knowledge, tenacity, and influencing skills. Unfortunately, most of us don't get much training or real experience dealing with crisis situations. On this podcast, we will talk with people who have lived through major crisis events and we will tap their experience and stories from the front lines of crisis management.
Your host, Tom Mueller, is a veteran crisis manager and trainer with more than 30 years in the corporate communications and crisis fields. Tom currently works as an executive coach and crisis trainer with WPNT Communications, and as a contract public information officer and trainer through his personal company, Tom Mueller Communications LLC.
Your co-host, Marc Mullen, has over 20 years of experience as a communication strategist. He provides subject matter expertise in a number of communication specializations, including crisis communication plan development, response and recovery communications, emergency notifications and communications, organizational reviews, and after-action reports. He blogs at Blog | Marc Mullen
Our goal is to help you grow your knowledge and awareness so you can be better prepared to lead should a major crisis threaten your organization.
Music credit: Special thanks to Nick Longoria from Austin, Texas for creating the theme music for the podcast.
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The Leading in a Crisis Podcast
EP 35 Leading in a crisis - lessons and advice from a first time PIO and Deputy (Part 2)
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On this episode, we continue our conversation with Will Fitzgerald and Celina Cardenas from Occidental Petroleum recounting their first time serving in leadership roles for a major crisis exercise.
Ever wondered how leaders maintain composure and maneuver through the chaos of a crisis? That's exactly what we uncover with Will and Celina as they recount their experiences at the helm during a high-intensity crisis simulation. Will pulls back the curtain on the role of a Public Information Officer in a unified command, where rapid-fire decisions and clear communication are paramount. Celina gives us a front-row seat to the demands of managing a Joint Information Center, from handling a barrage of media queries to realigning team roles on the fly for maximum efficiency. This episode is nothing short of a masterclass in leadership under fire.
We'd love to hear from you. Email the show at Tom@leadinginacrisis.com.
Leading in a Crisis
Tom MuellerHi everyone and welcome back to the Leading in a Crisis podcast . I'm Tom Mueller . On today's podcast , we're continuing our conversation with Will Fitzgerald Celina Cardenas Cardenas from Occidental Petroleum . Will and Celina served as public information officer and deputy public information officer for a major crisis exercise recently and they've come on to kind of share their experiences as first-time leaders in those roles . Let's pick up the conversation with them now .
Tom MuellerWell , you guys in your different roles face different types of pressure . Will , you're in the PIO role , interfacing with the unified command and trying to manage those personalities and the approval process and just getting paper in front of those guys to get their approvals on it . And Selena , you were , you know , running that joint information center and you know , as you said , trying to ascertain the skill sets of everybody in the room . Yeah , I wonder , selena , you know if you can talk to us just a minute about the tension in the room , right , because there's a lot of things happening . There's new information coming in , the phones are ringing , press releases are trying to get written , but people are getting distracted . How did you keep the focus and get the deliverables out the door ?
Celina CardenasI had a room of . Oh , good grief , what do we have ?
Celina Cardenaslike 10 to 15 , maybe well around there so , yeah , I had like three or four coast guard and we had some folks from another department within Oxy that were working the liaisons and the injects coming in , and then we had some writers on our team and then we had those answering the phone for the very wonderful news reporters that were calling us with questions , the very wonderful news reporters that were calling us with questions . That team , specifically with the reporters calling that team , I had to pay close attention to because you're under so much pressure and it's phone call after phone call , there's no stop . And if you're under that type of pressure , constantly with question after question that at times you weren't prepared to answer because we were still working through , how do we want to talk about this ? Do we have the right information ? Let's go verify that with so-and-so before we even draft it and craft it , and so sometimes it was a matter of I appreciate you calling . This is all the information I have at this time , thank you . But then they have to work to get off the phone and , as many of us who have sat in the reporter's seat , you don't let them get off the phone , right , and your job is to get the information , to get the most accurate information so you can build your story .
Celina CardenasAnd that is the team that I learned to give breaks to . There were some that they didn't miss a beat . They could take call after call after call . But then there were others that I started to notice and , as I got to know throughout the session for the first time , their strong suit might have been more the writing versus the phone . So they appreciated the practice . But when I gave them the opportunity to kind of switch roles , they were like thank you , and it was . It was a good kind of in the moment tweak . I didn't make a big deal about it , I just told them you're doing great , I think it's time for a rest and a change of pace . And they were like sounds great , so cause you don't want to , you don't want to lose their momentum and you also don't want them to feel like they haven't , you know , contributed to to the effort .
Celina CardenasWell , the other team that I needed to pay close attention to was media monitoring . There's a lot coming in and being voiced . Sometimes that's better shared to me directly and then I figure out how to inform Will whenever we get through that . There were things that were sensitive to company security and that just I felt like it might shake the team if everybody was knowledgeable . So it was more of let me handle it , let me get with the right folks within my company , Let me advise Will so he can advise leadership , and again , this is all within like minute by minute .
Celina CardenasSo between those two teams I tried to have one ear this way and the other one that way , because they were very critical in the messaging , the response and then also keeping the motivation of the team . If you know that there are articles after articles being written and speculation out there , it might shake you as a team member that you're not most effective and I wanted them all to know that they're doing great and it's my job to come in and support them if they need me to take over and or move them to another spot and or give them a break and we figure out . You know we figure that out as we , as we move through it . I hope that answers the question yeah .
Marc MullenSo , Celina , have you done that before ? Was this your first time to basically be a JIC manager in an exercise and in official capacity for the Gulf of Mexico ?
Celina CardenasYes , that was my first time conducting that type of a structure . I have managed a team of agents in a customer service capacity through crisis . It's a bit different . There wasn't a formal name .
Will FitzgeraldIt's such a point for me as the PIO , having a strong deputy PIO in the information center , because the leader can't make decisions in a vacuum . You don't always have the right answer immediately . So it's really valuable have the right answer immediately . So it's really valuable is having somebody who you trust , who's in that room and run ideas through , get feedback and then pressure test those ideas and see if it's the right fall .
Leadership and Crisis Management Strategies
Will FitzgeraldI remember hearing one of my favorite quotes on leadership . That's one that I heard from a CEO of a large US bank and said you know , the job of a leader is not to make the decision . The job of the leader is to make sure the right decision is made . And ultimately , when you have , you know , someone as capable as Selena in the jig and then that team you know that you've empowered , you don't have to guess at the right decision . I mean a lot of times it's waiting there to be found .
Marc MullenSo that makes a big difference when you have , you know , well-run team in there so , Celina , looking at your JIC and , by the way , everything I'm hearing says you ran it very , very well . So , when you look back , did you have the people you needed to have there and did you have as many , or what would you do differently ?
Celina CardenasI needed more writers okay and that was a matter of reorganizing the team that I had already . I ended up using the Coast Guard in some capacities for writing , but it was more towards the final draft . It wasn't for the crafting and drafting and I realized at the end of the day we could have gotten out shorter , stronger statements and many more statements , versus working towards a two paragraph release . And if I had had more writers I could have said you're going to take this section of what we're working on , you're going to take this section , and I think , just working on that specific section , for example , if we're talking about an employee count , for example , and getting that information accurate , checking in with HR , that could have been one piece , and then I could have had the technical side . And so , looking back on it , that's one thing that I was like if I had had more writers .
Celina CardenasI think also too , sometimes as communicators we're like I can do this , I'll just draft it up myself , and I had to stop that urge to want to do it . So you know , that would be one thing that I would do . Also , I think the liaisons , as the injects came in , it probably would have been good to elevate them in a capacity where they got up , they presented the inject to the whole team . We put pens down because it's going to take two minutes . We all understood what the inject was . My media relations person , who was tracking everything , could then see if any misinformation or information was out there regarding that inject and we could have just troubleshooted right then and there .
Tom MuellerBut that's that's one of the big leadership challenges you face running a JIC is there's always something new coming in and you have to prioritize what your team is working on every minute right , because if those things come in and everybody's distracted by this new shiny inject over here , the press releases aren't getting written or the fact sheet isn't getting written right . So you really have to drive that focus and that's what a good JIC manager does . Hey , Will , I want to . I'm going to start with you and then go to Celina , but just ask you about , you know , when you think about things you've learned and think about other sort of new PIOs who might be coming and having a similar experience as you guys have , what would you recommend they do to prepare for a big crisis like this ?
Will FitzgeraldPreparation is vital and I think you know , you hear the old adage , the you know the five Ps prior preparation prevents poor performance , and it really is true . So I'm going into an exercise . I would recommend you know , learning as much as you can about the situation and try to put some of those initial pieces together ahead of time . We didn't have all the information , but we knew that it was going to involve something in the Gulf of Mexico . We know from our industry experience the types of incidents that are likely there . So we should start compiling Q&As on our offshore operations , familiarizing ourselves with the key players in the business and who we're going to need to source information from . Looking at our holding statements and our draft statements , that we put together templates so those are dusted off and ready to go . Make sure they're still relevant . They still have the information that we're going to need . Ready to go . Make sure they're still relevant . They still have the information that we're going to need . And then also the other piece you know back to organizations think through the people who are going to be participating in that exercise and placing them in roles that you know that makes sense .
Will FitzgeraldThere's another piece that you know might be a little bit different in terms of the actual response , but it's something that Celina mentioned earlier and it's not overlooking . You know the emotional aspects that could happen in an incident like this . A crisis response , all of those anxieties , the pressures , all those things can begin to take a toll . So , as a leader and then Celina as a deputy PIO you need to keep tabs on your team and make sure that they're you know that they're reacting well and if there is a , there is a toll that's being taken on them . Have them step outside , get a breath of fresh air , decompress a little bit , because the response is only as good as the people who are running it . And if you're tired , if you're overwhelmed , you know if you're stretched thin , that's not going to lead to a competent response .
Marc MullenSo , you know , having somebody who can pick up on that is really important and that's one of the challenges with the drill environment is , um , it used to be every once in a while there'd be a two or three day exercise , but you just can't afford that anymore . But the reality is , for what you were exercising against in a real event , that was only day one , you would still be there , you would still be moving on . So , just as you said , it's really important to watch the health of your team and , as good as Selena is , she's going to have to take a break . So , selena , I appreciate how you were looking and watching and monitoring your people , because you can move people around as you need . That's going to be critical in 12 hours .
Celina CardenasAnd I didn't make those decisions on my own either . When Will and I were able to talk , I was like , hey , heads up , this is what's happening . I made an executive decision , but you can tell me that I'm wrong and because he needed to know , and , and that you know we're in this together . I I may be in the room , but he's also in the room of our leadership and so they they need to be aware of , of you know how the team is , how they can best support and what we're capable of at the time , and or , if we're going to , you know , readjust . But I think too , when , if you're especially new to your company , you don't want to meet somebody for the first time in crisis .
Celina CardenasI've been with Occidental two years now . First thing I did is make sure I know my team , make sure I know who I'm supporting and , for example , in my world , I work very closely with our plant managers .
Celina CardenasI'm not getting to know them for the first time . So if you need to jump on teams and take 15 minutes and introduce yourself , that is an opportunity to connect and that can also give them a sense of ease like , oh , I know that person , okay , this is who I'm going to lean on and then we're going to , you know , move through that together . I think the other thing is then , you know , don't , don't be afraid to to YouTube , like you know , any type of scenario specific to your industry . In our case , we had videos on how a JIC was run . I was not familiar with that process , so just looking at that video and seeing the key players of what Will was walking into helped me a lot , because , at the end of the day , that's who we're reporting to . So , you know , take that 30 minutes , figure out what's specific to your industry and see if there's some sort of a free tutorial out there , because that can help you a ton .
Will FitzgeraldI think to that point, Celina, FEMA does have free classes that everybody can go through for the incident command training , obviously a variety of levels . But you know , having that knowledge and going through one or two or three of those courses really gives you a lot of information in terms of , once you stand that incident command up , the different sections that you need to , you know , work through and familiarize yourself with , from logistics to finance to operations , all those different things . So I would recommend for somebody to log on , take some of those courses and you're going to be much better off for it .
Marc MullenSure , I have a feeling I know the answer to this question , but as you went through this exercise , who was your Yoda , who was that person that was just going to be there for you , that you knew you could call and ask anything you needed , selena Well anything you needed Selena .
Will FitzgeraldWell , I can't tell you how many times Celina and I traded text messages and I was in an incident command briefing and you know , just learn this please make sure we're working on a draft media statement for this or putting together talking points . You know I was stretched so thin because I was attending all of these different , you know , incident command meetings . I needed somebody in that joint information center was really the pulse for me and can keep those deliverables moving .
Celina CardenasSo Selena , without a doubt , was my Yoda , because I needed to have a sounding board as well , and between the but you have to lean on each other , and so just letting him know hey , this is how we're moving through it . I'm still working on that draft , but I will get it to you . You know , things like that Just really helpful , and Will and I have not worked together long , so I'm really thankful that we were able to move through this so well together .
Tom MuellerYou know I was thinking about jargon for a minute here , because when you get into deep water you know oil and gas operations and oil spill response technology , which is just incredible , but there's a whole new jargon you have to learn and be able to communicate to non-technical audiences . How much of a challenge was that for you guys .
Will FitzgeraldIt's a huge challenge . You know , anytime you listen to some of these incident command briefings , there's a lot of jargon , a lot of technical details , and for me you kind of have to , you know , take your ego aside and just don't hesitate to walk up to somebody after that briefing and say you know , I need two or three minutes on what a capping stack is . Or , you know , help me understand this component , piece of a technology , piece of a rig , because it's it's your job to to understand that information , because you need to communicate , and if you don't understand it , you're doing your team and the response a disservice . So just try to break down the barriers . If you don't know something , ask you have all of that jargon that you've been hearing over and over and over again in all of these briefings . Don't take that back into the information center . Try to break that down and if you're going to use that , explain what that language is so everybody has an understanding of it .
Tom MuellerC elina - a nything to add to that on jargon ?
Celina CardenasNo , I think it just in industry in general , we speak in acronyms , and so don't ever lose that opportunity , even in your day to day , to say guys , can we spell that out Just for my sake , and that also helps your team understand , okay . Well , here comes Selena again asking me to put it in layman's terms and I'm like well , I need it so I can properly communicate with our stakeholders . So don't ever lose that , whether you're in a drill or just in your everyday , I think that's an important practice to constantly keep your team in check about .
Will FitzgeraldAnd try to understand your audience . As you're speaking to your external stakeholders , people in the communities who might be impacted by an event like this , they're not going to understand those things either . So if we don't understand it , they're not going to understand . So you really need to emphasize the point of just clear , simple communications , and your message will be stronger as a result .
Tom MuellerYeah , if you guys don't understand those terms , what are the odds a reporter covering the story is going to understand them ? Right ? Very small Marc . Anything else you want to throw at our professional responders here ?
Marc MullenI would have liked to have been in the room .
Tom MuellerIt was fun to watch and they did a fantastic job . So let me just say that , as a pair of eyes who were hanging out in the corner watching it all happen , so nice work there , you guys . Thank you , Will and Celina , for taking time to come join us and share your experiences as dealing with PIO and deputy PIO roles . We really appreciate you joining us today .
Will FitzgeraldThanks , tom , appreciate it .
Celina CardenasThank you Mark , thank you Tom .
Marc MullenThank you .
Tom MuellerAnd that's going to do it for this episode of the Leading in a Crisis podcast . Thanks for joining us . If you like what you're hearing , then please like and subscribe to the podcast and please tell your friends and colleagues about us as well , and we'll see you again soon for another episode of the Leading in a Crisis podcast .
