Tom Mueller: 0:06

Hi everyone and welcome to the Leading in a Crisis podcast. On this podcast, we talk all things crisis management and we deliver that through storytelling, interviews and lessons learned from experienced crisis leaders. I'm Tom Mueller. With me again today is my co-host, Marc Mullen. Mark welcome.

Marc Mullen: 0:26

Thank you, Tom, it's good to be here.

Tom Mueller: 0:28

Thanks for joining us On today's episode. We're continuing our conversation with Randy Sumner on the issue of NGO and nonprofit organizations, crisis management, preparation and response. Randy was a longtime television news journalist and now works as an executive coach and a crisis trainer for WPNT communications. Let's pick up the conversation with Randy now. Well, randy, just a quick example here to get your reaction to. You know, there was a shooting here in Houston at the ginormous Lakewood Church, joe Lohstein's congregation, just recently and you know horrific event, you know where. We had two people well, actually three or four people shot on the church campus and security guards came in quickly, tactically, took care of the situation. But from a communications aspects, randy, as you sort of look at that, what's your assessment of it?

Randy Sumner: 1:31

I'll start first with the operational response on this. The fact that they had a security plan in place to manage this quickly probably saved a significant number of lives. So start first with that. You need to have an operational response.

Randy Sumner: 1:46

One thing we've learned from all the church shootings we've seen over the last two decades is that if you churches have to be prepared in advance and this is one of the things I've really admired in the wake of some of these shootings, we're seeing even these smaller churches stepping up, because it was a small church the Sandy Springs Baptist Church outside of San Antonio, where we had that gunman go in and the horrific tragedy that occurred there. We have seen now churches finally recognizing and non-profit organizations putting plans in place to make their facilities secure. Great Now comes once you've gotten through that early stage and you've secured the situation. Now you've got to start talking about this Complicating that particular situation. Lakewood, you had a person who had multiple identities. That made it more complicated, which led to some speculation about motives that might have been involved in that. One of the things I did admire is the church knew they needed to step out and make sure that they took care of their those that are in their congregation was their top priority make sure they were safe, make sure everyone knew exactly what the expectations were. They managed that really well and they put the focus on making sure that all of those impacted in, even the perpetrator because, remember, the perpetrator had children involved in this shooting as well. They went out of their way to let people know how much the organization Lakewood cared about all those involved, including the gunman.

Randy Sumner: 3:22

To me, that was exactly what they should have been doing in the first place. Anyone who's involved in that type of crime typically has oftentimes mental health challenges associated with that and if anything, if a church can't have compassion for people who are under those types of circumstances, then who is going to? So to me, I thought they managed it from a communications standpoint in the early hours exceptionally well. They've gone a bit radio silent since. I'm sure that was part of their strategy and plan. But I have some knowledge of the team that's involved over at Lakewood Church and I know they had a strategy and a plan and they also brought in some experts to help them to manage this as well and I think they did a nice job from a communications standpoint. But not everyone has the resources of the largest church in North America to be able to manage these types of situations. They did, and they did it exceptionally well.

Marc Mullen: 4:18

Because I was just thinking, as you're talking about Lakewood, that's great if you're Lakewood, but what if you're a small nonprofit and you're really trying to make payroll and keep services out the door? And how do you prepare?

Randy Sumner: 4:34

I'll be direct with you. I'm on the executive board for a nonprofit called Lighthouse for Students Just give them a little quick plug inside of there. Who works inside of public schools across in some of the most disadvantaged and more challenging areas inside of Houston, including Sunnyside and some of the some of the areas in the city where the crime rates are exceptionally high and the dropout rates are high. We had a gala just over this past weekend where we had Tim Tebow come in as our as our speaker for this, and we had a very large crowd of Folks who came to be a part of the special event. As Part of our preparation, we made all of the preps in play. We put it, we put a crisis management plan in place before we even Got down to the details of what was going on to happen inside of the gala itself, because we knew one. We have high-profile people that are involved in this. We also have a lot of people who would be considered targets On a personal level for for anyone who was coming in there to try to take advantage of the situation. So those were all things that you have to factor in as a nonprofit that, if you don't, that's when we see the real tragedy start to occur. And you know Because of by a personal experience, I was pretty vocal about making sure that we had all those things set up in place for us to be able to manage this situation.

Randy Sumner: 6:01

Unfortunately, not everyone has Experts in house who can manage that and to be and to be honest, I'm a little, I'm anxious and nervous at times For some of these organizations who are going out of their way, exposing themselves to danger on a daily basis just by the nature of what they do, and then they have an event. Now, suddenly, there's all. There might be some something of value for me to pursue. If I go there Now, you're putting yourself at even greater exposure and oftentimes that's where those types of challenges start to arise.

Randy Sumner: 6:33

And again, I really wish I could say nonprofits do a great job of being prepared in advance. It's something we're working on in the more, and I like having conversations like this Because hopefully there are those that are out there inside the nonprofit world who will take these threats seriously, because oftentimes when you're on a mission, you feel like you're bulletproof and you can. You can dive into some pretty challenging situations, and you're not. We're fallible, we're human beings and we're exposed to the same challenges that everyone else is how do we make sure that we do this in a way that we are being intelligent, smart in the way that we approach, and not just for our own self preservation, but for the preservation of all those we're trying to serve? That's really crucial. I.

Tom Mueller: 7:20

There's communications planning and the communications response, but then, as you've mentioned, there's also the tactical planning and tactical response and, of course, in the Lakewood Church scenario, we saw the tactical plan in full force right, with off-duty police officers responding, fully armed body cameras. Organizations need both of those plans in place right. In your experience, as you've worked through these issues with various companies, which is the more difficult for nonprofits to come to grips with? Is it that operational tactical peace in the threat environment or is it managing the communications response?

Randy Sumner: 8:03

Oftentimes it is the communication side, both internally and externally. We tend to fixate on what the rest of the world is hearing about these crises. Oftentimes you have a network of volunteers who are propping up these organizations and keeping them running and if they don't see leadership operating in the way that they believe it should be operating, they're gone. So the internal communications oftentimes is most crucial and I don't think most nonprofits even give that a second thought. So from a tactical perspective, we're seeing really an improvement in some of the crisis management plans. I think there's a much, particularly as it relates to security and safety. We're seeing those become much more prevalent. I can remember years ago working in nonprofits and there were doors on everywhere. Now we're seeing in a lot of these nonprofit organizations they're taking the doors off the hinges so that there's a little greater transparency. So there's not accusations that could be made towards folks. They're from an operational perspective. I think nonprofits are doing a much better job From a communications perspective.

Randy Sumner: 9:14

Oftentimes you have the most senior leader who's a good communicator. You may have someone in a PR function of some sort involved in these organizations who not typically has great experience in a crisis setting. So even if they're a good communicator and have good connections, oftentimes they don't know exactly what type of messaging they should be delivering into these environments. That's a real challenge and that's something that's going to have to be improved as we move forward because, as I mentioned, the rest of the world is not going to wait weeks for you to get your response. They're expecting you to be communicating to them just like that, and it is very difficult to be able to do that when you have lots of hurdles internally to make sure we get approvals to say anything. That's not just on the corporate side, gentlemen, I can assure you. It's just as significant on the nonprofit side and sometimes even more difficult, because you'll have a board member who's an attorney, typically speaking, who's holding them accountable, just like you have legal inside of the corporate environment.

Tom Mueller: 10:21

Interesting. So similar approval challenges then within the nonprofit side. And, of course, you know, when we train people on crisis management, it's really hey, know your approval process and make it an efficient one, because it's going to burn up time. And it sure sounds like Randy, that's what you see.

Randy Sumner: 10:40

That is exactly what I see. They should be getting clarity in what the approval process looks like. Most times it's just everybody turns to the head of the organization says, what do we do now? That's what I see the vast majority of times. Some of these leaders are very sharp and respond exceptionally well. Some of these leaders are in way over their heads in trying to manage some of these crises.

Marc Mullen: 11:04

So it sounds like you've got a crisis management plan and you've got a crisis communication plan, and what you're saying is sometimes you have one but not the other, sometimes you have both, sometimes you have neither.

Randy Sumner: 11:16

So typically speaking, what I see with most of the larger nonprofits the smaller nonprofits you're not going to typically find either You're going to find some security measures. That's about it. The larger nonprofits I see tend to have the operational, the tactical response, some kind of strategy in place, and when things go bad, they call somebody in the outside like me or someone who's a professional in this space and say what do we do now? That, typically, is what I see in most of these larger nonprofits.

Tom Mueller: 11:47

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Marc Mullen: 12:46

One of my clients crisis management plan was three phone numbers on a business card.

Randy Sumner: 12:52

Probably a better strategy in a lot of the nonprofits that I have who don't even have a clue who to call first. So I will tell you that is that's becoming much more prevalent, and let me let me just kind of expand upon that just a bit Oftentimes it's not who do we call for help, because who should we be calling? Period, should we call 911? You would be amazed how many large nonprofits that I work alongside who don't even know when they should call 911 or if it's appropriate to call 911. Forget about the National Response Center. That's not something the nonprofits worry about, but they just worry about the simple things. Or should I call the boss right now? That's the kind of thing that really does not get communicated well, and when you have organizations where volunteers make up a significant portion of the organization, you take what you can get to a certain degree as far as training goes, and if you're able to give them the proper training to know what to do under circumstances, that's almost like a blessing that that's not anticipated in most of these crises.

Marc Mullen: 13:57

So you're saying a plug here for volunteers across the country. If you have crisis management functions in your day job, volunteer at your favorite nonprofit, because they probably don't have you 100% agree.

Randy Sumner: 14:10

And there should be, and most of these larger nonprofits particularly like these churches and there's just tens of thousands of these churches across the US, much less around the world and in these organizations they'll have like an annual training to explain about how they use their curriculum. In those trainings I've been strongly encouraging the organizations that I work with take a few moments and explain. You see something, let somebody know. You see a need, meet the need. And sometimes meeting the need is calling 911. And far too often they're worried about oh, this might be reportable. We don't want this getting into the news. Get over that.

Randy Sumner: 14:54

And far too often I have to come back and try to clean up messes that could have been simply easily resolved with just a simple call to 911. But instead trying to protect the shield. I hate to keep using that phrase because I know that that goes back to the NFL, the way that they approach things. But protecting that shield is not what your nonprofit is all about, because, trust me, if you're in a religious organization, that religion is not going to fall and collapse based on your particular organization not doing things the right way. What will happen is you can significantly impact how others perceive based on your actions, whether or not they could trust any other similar organizations moving forward.

Marc Mullen: 15:41

So you mentioned early on that sometimes it seems to take a long time to get actions or words in place. So what? What do you do when you walk into basically a moonscape of Not knowing what's happening, response wise, but also not having anything to share or any any consensus on what you share externally? How? How do you rebuild from that, or what are your Intermediate steps to make sure you can walk out the door?

Randy Sumner: 16:11

One of the things that I find is easier for some of these nonprofits to do, even after they drop the ball significantly in the early stages, is to come clean and beg forgiveness. Many of these organizations are asking people to come to them asking for forgiveness and they are not by nature. Typically that's not. Their first thought is to ask for others forgiveness, but once they get it they're like it's like a light bulb goes off and they're like this is what we should have been doing all along. We should be. We should be looking and making sure we're protecting those who have been impacted and, at the same time, taking responsibility for the fact that we didn't do it right.

Randy Sumner: 16:55

And here's the thing most people who have a passion for a specific organization or a specific cause are Very willing, very, very willing, to offer forgiveness if you'll come clean. I Just really it just frustrates me how unwilling most of these organizations are to ever admit anything. They think if we just stick our head in the sand and I'll hold out for long enough, eventually everybody forget and they'll move on. I Got to tell you there's people with some rather long memories it when it comes to the organization where they've given their time, money and effort.

Tom Mueller: 17:37

Randy, when you think about, you know the evolving news media environment that we live and work in today. I mean, how do you coach nonprofits through to be effective leaders with media in situations like this?

Randy Sumner: 17:55

One of the things I encourage first of all is most. All of these organizations have multiple social platforms. They've got total control over what goes on to those social platforms. Oftentimes I've seen organizations try to shut them down when that's the last thing you need to do. This is your way to get the message out as quickly, officially and effectively as possible. I can remember when I first started working with corporations, we talked about social media and people would laugh at me for bringing it up. No one's laughing anymore from a corporate perspective, and I will tell you the same thing goes for the nonprofits. You have the ability unfiltered, to get your messages out there. You should, by all means, be taking full advantage of it.

Randy Sumner: 18:32

When it comes to the higher profile media, whether it's local TV or radio or newspaper outlets, and and obviously they're all on the web in multiple different fashions these days Let me be clear about this if your organization is involved in a crisis, your voice carries louder than everyone else's. So if you're willing to speak, I Gotta tell you. I encourage people get out there now. Don't speak until you know exactly what you're going to say, but try to get out there and be as public as possible, as Early as possible.

Randy Sumner: 19:05

Here's what happens in the early stages of any crisis. We talked about this time on a regular basis. In the time when you actually have a little bit of of Symbiosis with with the media is in the early stages, when everybody's just trying to make sure everybody's safe, everybody's protected. The longer you go, the harder the questions get. So I want to try to do everything I can in the early stages to be as transparent, as open and direct as possible, and Oftentimes that's all you're going to need to do. Once you have some messages out there, some clarity, and you put the focus where it needs to be, it works.

Tom Mueller: 19:45

So, Randy, for the nonprofits who are standing here sort of flat-footed with a deer in the headlights, look what's your counsel for them. How do they get started with developing these crisis plans and being ready to go when crisis strikes?

Randy Sumner: 20:02

Let me make this as simple as possible. Start first with showing you get it, you recognize what is at stake here and that you're caring for those who are impacted. That sounds like it should be the most obvious thing in the world for nonprofits, but it rarely is. Everybody wants to try to get in there and try to make it as legalistic as possible. Try to protect the shield as much as possible, come clean, be direct. Soon as we found something out, we made proper notifications and, on top of that, we're doing everything we can to try to help those who have been impacted, who were under our watch and care. That's number one. Number two spend some time thinking specifically about what you can say you're doing and have done to manage this situation. Talk about who you contacted. Talk specifically about acts you're taking.

Randy Sumner: 21:00

In some cases, there may be discipline involved in it. You need to make sure you're being very direct and don't try to keep this hidden behind some shield. You need to be open about the way you approach this and, finally, remember you're not there just for this moment. In most nonprofits, you're focused on the long term and you're not going to let this situation that's arisen, this crisis you're facing right now, stop you from being committed to your mission and your cause. That is crucial. You keep those as your focus and, frankly, oftentimes stay limited to just those things. You're going to position yourself to manage the challenges from a communication standpoint. We can get a lot more detailed into specifics, but just at that level. That's the highest level of messaging that you need to be focused on Communicating both internally and externally, and do not forget the internal communication.

Tom Mueller: 22:00

Okay, Randy, thank you so much for joining us today on the podcast. A lot of gems of wisdom here for nonprofits who are thinking about how do we deal with a crisis situation. And, randy, thanks for sharing your time and your expertise with us today.

Randy Sumner: 22:17

My pleasure and, tom Mark, I appreciate the fact that you're doing everything that you're doing to raise the profile, to help organizations, whether they're corporations or nonprofits, to manage these challenging crises. So thank you very much for all that you two do. Thank you, randy.

Tom Mueller: 22:36

And that's going to do it for this episode of the Leading in a Crisis podcast. If you like what you're hearing here, then please like and subscribe to the podcast and give us a five-star rating, and please tell your friends and colleagues about us as well, and we'll see you again for another episode of the Leading in a Crisis podcast.

Marc Mullen: 22:57

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