Nonprofit Crisis Management and Transparency

Tom Mueller 0:07

Hi everyone and welcome to the Leading in a Crisis podcast . On this podcast , we talk all things crisis management and we deliver that through storytelling , interviews and lessons learned from experienced crisis leaders . I'm Tom Mueller . With me again today is my co-host , Marc Mullen . Mark welcome .

Marc Mullen 0:27

Thank you , Tom , good to be here .

Tom Mueller 0:29

Mark , you sound great today . I have to say , Is that a new microphone you got ?

Marc Mullen 0:34

Yes , it is , it's a rodent .

Tom Mueller 0:38

All right , happy to hear that . Thanks for joining us everyone . On our podcast today we're going to talk a little bit about crisis planning for nonprofits , and with us today is a very special guest for me . He is Randy Sumner , who is a senior trainer with WPNT Communications here in Houston , where I'm based . Randy started his career as a television journalist and anchor and spent quite a few years working the beats doing on camera reporting , before shifting over and doing media training , crisis training and executive skills coaching for CEOs and senior leaders of Fortune 100 companies . So , Randy welcome . Thanks for joining us .

Randy Sumner 1:31

Tom, Mark , it is a pleasure to be on here with you two gentlemen , thoroughly enjoy listening to your podcast .

Tom Mueller 1:37

Thank you for that , randy . I have to say , guys , I actually spend a lot of time in the classroom with Randy doing the crisis training and other executive skills coaching , and I always listen carefully when Randy's speaking because I learn something every time I train with him . So I'm quite sure those listening to the podcast today are going to be able to walk away with something good and meeting All right . Well , let's jump right into it , guys . Randy , if I can start with the first question , I think about nonprofits . I think about churches or American Red Cross , other NGOs , nonprofits . When you do crisis training with those organizations , is it different than how you would train with a corporate client ?

Randy Sumner 2:33

Honestly , there are a lot of similarities in the way we approach . The same basic principles of communication are involved . The same basic principles of notifications typically are involved . Where it starts to vary is when you have a nonprofit or and this includes things like universities this includes all types of different organizations on the nonprofit side . They have a certain level of responsibility that comes from being a nonprofit that requires them to be a bit more transparent in when they communicate and how they communicate with those who are impacted , but also with everyone else who is entrusting , oftentimes their children or important parts of their lives to these different organizations . There comes with it a certain level of responsibility that they have that probably exceeds what typically , when I'm working with my corporate clients , they have to face .

Marc Mullen 3:28

So you're saying your stakeholders have a higher stake in the organization because it's touching them personally , absolutely .

Randy Sumner 3:36

In some cases , many of the stakeholders turn to these specific organizations during time of need and if there's a perception that they are not trustworthy under any circumstances , it can be fatal blow to an organization .

Randy Sumner 3:51

We have seen many a nonprofit organization absolutely collapse based on sometimes it might be the misconduct of a leader , sometimes it's misappropriation of funds . There's any number of different types of things that can lead to a lack of trust far too often . I hate to hate to state publicly , but the truth of the matter is , oftentimes it involves an impact on individuals who have been taken advantage of under the guise of some of these nonprofit organizations and that's painful for all parties involved in the process and it can make it very difficult because there's a tendency , particularly with nonprofits , to want to protect the shield to a certain degree . They want to make sure they're doing to make sure that the bigger , greater cause is not impacted , when the truth of the matter is far too often , while they're trying to protect the shield and not taking care of those who are under their care , the impact can be exactly the opposite of what they're intending .

Tom Mueller 4:53

Well , we know in working with corporate clients that being prepared is one of the critical aspects of this and having a plan in place . We also know that many corporations aren't particularly well-prepared or have plans in place . Randy , what's the case with the most nonprofits that you're coaching and working with ?

Randy Sumner 5:15

This really has been a bit of a shock to my system . Having worked with corporate clients primarily and then , over the course of the last decade or so , starting to become a little bit more involved , both on a pro bono and also on a retainer basis , with some of these larger organizations . It is shocking how ill-prepared most of them are because they're under a bit of an honor code system typically in the way they do things . So when things don't go the way they're expecting and sometimes it's not some kind of actions of anyone involved Sometimes it's like natural disasters can happen and suddenly they're turning and they're like whoa , what do we do now ?

Randy Sumner 5:54

And far too often there is not a plan in place . Once something happens , they're quick to turn for help right away . They understand how that process works because people are oftentimes turning to them for help , but in advance rarely do they have the plans in place to make sure they can manage things quickly and efficiently . Typically speaking , what I see in many of the nonprofits is it often takes days , weeks , even months before they can finally get things organized enough to be able to respond to a situation and in some cases , depending on the organization , that could be the end .

Marc Mullen 6:30

There's a tight connection between event and pocketbook and the nonprofit field Absolutely .

Marc Mullen 6:37

Another thing I've noticed is you talk about the shield . We tend to believe the inherent goodness of our cause , and we should . That's why you should be serving in that organization . The problem is we assume the rest of the world sees that same inherent goodness in our cause and in the point of a crisis it doesn't , and that's a shock . I've worked with nonprofits over the years so I've seen the crisis I've had to ride through them on the cause side , which is not nearly as much fun as why I can do it on the effect side .

Randy Sumner 7:15

Typically the really successful nonprofits , particularly the religious one . They have those critics who are anxiously awaiting for anyone to trip up in a moment so they can cry hypocrite as quickly as possible . And here's the challenge . Oftentimes , how these organizations manage these situations is , in fact , very hypocritical . The way that they can say one thing when it's a nice , beautiful , sunny day , then , when the bad things happen , you've got to be able to have the same level of focus in the way you manage the situation , and far too often organizations don't . One of the keys to success in making sure that you do the right thing is going to sound very similar to what you've probably been hearing from many others , as it relates to the corporate setting . Let people know you recognize the impact this is having on others . That sounds so simple , but in the midst of a crisis , I'm telling you , the walls go up in these organizations .

Randy Sumner 8:13

I work with a number of exceptionally large churches and the second there is any kind of issue whatsoever they go into full on defense because they're thinking about the kingdom . They want to protect that , when the truth of the matter is the kingdom is going to be just fine long after this is over . It's their organization that's trying to serve that kingdom . That is the one who's right now facing the real issues .

Randy Sumner 8:37

And if you don't manage things properly , you not only can really damage significantly those who have trusted you , but you also can damage the reputation to a point where no one will ever trust your organization again . And it's really difficult at times for some organizations to recognize this . I have to tell you , I have seen more exceptionally large nonprofits stick their heads in the sand whenever things are going wrong . Rather , just they don't want to have to face it because they don't want to pretend it's even there . We call that that fatal optimism is what we refer to .

Randy Sumner 9:10

It often times and it's the same thing occurs inside of a corporate environment . What bad things happen , those are closest tend to not want to believe it's really as bad as it is and they get bad information back to the leadership . It's the same thing occurs inside of a nonprofit , but oftentimes it's even more profound . Sometimes , even if you've seen something , nobody wants to admit what they seen because their heart's going out to those who have been faulted of the thing , who've done the wrong thing , and they're trying to protect them when really they're misguided and where who they should be protecting . They oftentimes should be protecting the victims and not the perpetrators .

Tom Mueller 9:48

So Randy , you said that you were surprised at how ill-prepared most nonprofits are . And you know and hearing that you're talking about jumping into the bunker mentality here , where we're just not going to deal with it . Are those two related the fact that the plans aren't in place , that people aren't prepared and so aren't ready to step up and lead sort of publicly because of that planning process ?

Randy Sumner 10:17

I agree 100% , Tom , because people don't want to believe bad things are going to happen , they just put it off . Now I'm telling you , I get calls in the middle of the night , I get calls when I'm over traveling overseas . I've had calls back hey , can you help us ? We're in a real spot right now and if they would just had just a little bit of planning in advance , created some kind of strategy that they could implement .

Randy Sumner 10:42

The second they respond , and our corporate clients tend to be really good , particularly the ones who are in the energy sector . They live this on a daily basis with the threat . Although , I will tell you , even some of my larger clients tend to be the tech sector . They are not quite as prepared because , again , they think more about concerns , about breaches , security breaches , cybersecurity concerns , and it's easier to kind of put that in a box than it is to have your CEO or senior executive get caught doing something that it is completely inappropriate under any connotation . Then what happens is either they'll get just that executive will just get ditched to the side , or they'll get so bunkered up inside of there that no one will talk about anything and the rest of the world is thinking I knew it all along .

Marc Mullen 11:34

Avertisement: Hi , this is Marc . We all know that in a crisis , nothing is more important than doing the right thing and making sure people know about it . In recognition of this reality , your organization has both a physical response plan directing response actions and a crisis communication plan guiding communication efforts . These plans should work together to enhance your ability to do the right thing and to make sure people know about it . But do you know these plans work well together ? I can help you be sure by reviewing both plans to ensure that they do . A small investment in this review can yield a large return in the effectiveness of your plans . If you're interested or want to learn more , please email me at markmullenccc at gmailcom .

Tom Mueller 12:31

So , Randy , I know when we do training , we talk about having a spokesperson lined up and ready and trained . Oftentimes there's a debate in the corporate space around well , which executive is the right person to step up and be the face of this incident response Sometimes it's the CEO , sometimes it's not the CEO , because the circumstances are different when you're working with large churches and that . How does that conversation go ?

Randy Sumner 13:02

It , to be blunt , it's a very short conversation , depending on the significance of the situation or the crisis that's facing them . Oftentimes it requires the senior most person in the organization to step out there because there's too much at stake . If you have someone else come out and speak , they're thinking well , why isn't the leader not stepping up ? It's a bit different dynamic than when you're in a corporate setting where you have specific stakeholders , both from a financial perspective but also internal stakeholders that are watching this very closely . In the nonprofit space , you need to have someone who's willing to step up and take leadership . Typically speaking , in most of these larger organizations , they tend to be very professional , quality communicators who understand exactly how to communicate well . What they don't often know is what they should be communicating , and that's a bit frustrating

Nonprofit Crisis Management Challenges

Randy Sumner 13:58

. I had one of the largest universities on the planet reach out to me when they had a situation occur on their campus where someone in the middle of the night tried to come into a dormitory and was carrying an axe and was shot and killed by a security officer . And it turns out that security officer was a woman who was in , who was , frankly , a little bit in shock and overwhelmed by the circumstances in the situation . So it wasn't appropriate for us as an organization to be talking about who is this person and and and give many details at all , because , frankly , what happens is everyone who had a student on that campus is thinking what about my child ? Okay , what is their dorm safe ? And all these types of challenges start to arise . So now you're in a situation where you have one student who's coming in , acting inappropriately and , frankly , in a in a harmful way , come , just coming into the situation , who is shot and killed in the proper fashion by a security officer . But you cannot , under any circumstances , you can't , disparage students , you can't disparage the security , so you get caught in a real predicament when in doubt . This is the counsel I give . We talk about making sure you go over the top In demonstrating your compassion . You're caring for all of those who are impacted , regardless victim , perpetrator , whatever else .

Randy Sumner 15:32

Now , to be clear , we need to make sure that all legal notifications are made and historically , particularly non-profit organizations and christian organizations have done a terrible job of reporting . Okay , we've all seen the cases in the news . That is pretty obvious One of the biggest impotences we've had in trying to educate some of these larger organizations that I work with from time to time is letting them know . It is not an option for you to notify authorities . It is not only a legal requirement for you , it is a moral obligation For you to do it . And that's not something that's top of mind because , again , when you're in , when you're worried about reputation , the last thing you want to do is let anyone know there's been anything happened . Okay , that's natural instincts , but under those circumstances you've got to step forward . You've got to lean in and let people know we get it , even if you're concerned that the allegations that might be brought are Unfair or untrue . You have to give the perception and make it clear and be transparent in the process you're using To make sure you look at this . You can't say we're going to independently Take a look at this . You need to make sure you're doing this in a way where there's some accountability In the process , and this has been a challenge .

Randy Sumner 16:53

Some of the largest churches in the us have seen some massive scandals that the rest of the corporate world would say it really you care about this . There was a church in seattle called marsill church that was led by a gentleman named mark driscoll , who is one of the most high profile christian leaders in the us . But when he got within his own walls , hit the rep , what was stated by those who were on his staff is that he was Not acting appropriately in the way that he engaged his staff , the way he treated them , the uh . There were some duplicitousness in the way that he would say one thing publicly and then have a very different experience . And so what happened was there .

Randy Sumner 17:33

There was a real cry for some accountability and the problem in most of these organizations , if you're the leader of the organization , you have significant control over that organization and there are not a lot of checks and balances in play Inside of corporate setting . There's always that that the board of directors , who can , who can hold you accountable , or there's there's other things inside of a contract that legally can . Oftentimes nonprofits don't have any checks and balances in play and it makes it much more difficult , even with some of these organizations that uh are raising hundreds of millions of dollars in some cases . Frankly , there's not a whole lot at the top when something goes wrong or someone to step in and say , hey , we need to address this .

Marc Mullen 18:19

Right and you gave an example of the mark . But Any organization that depends on vision and purpose and a Leader to carry the torch on that is subject to that . You can't look at that and say that just happens in churches . That can happen in any nonprofit , because they Organization mark .

Randy Sumner 18:38

Yeah , narcissism is real , regardless of whether you have a higher calling or a purpose in mind . Uh , you get in those circumstances and you wield that much power and have that much control , it is very difficult to to remain focused . We saw that with it . I don't want to get limited just to Christian organizations . We saw that with with Ravi Zacharias in Atlanta and and he was as about a respected a leader from a theological perspective as you're going to find anywhere on the planet . But he was leading a double life and when it came time to expose it , there were very few who were privy to this , who were willing to go public with it Because they didn't want to bring down a man who was doing so much good .

Randy Sumner 19:22

And that's the challenge we run into with a lot of the nonprofits . When there's there's concerns that arise , crises that arise inside the organization , how do we manage this ? How do we do this in a way that doesn't destroy the organization or the reputation of those who are involved in the process ? Sometimes the reputations need to be brought to light . Sometimes , when things are wrong , it needs to be exposed by the light , and that's an important part of the nonprofit world when we have organizations who try to hide behind that . Uh , that's when we lose the lack of respect and trust and , frankly , there's a lot of discussion going on right now about whether or not these nonprofit organizations should in fact be tax exempt . When you have high profile situations and crises arrive and they're not handled properly , that's what makes that debate a little more of a syphus .

Marc Mullen 20:14

That's what you call an industry altering event Indeed .

Randy Sumner 20:18

Absolutely and and I'll be I'll I'll be direct with both of you . I think we're getting to the point now , at this stage , of where we are in the communication world , where people are used to getting information out instantly on anything that happens anywhere . Uh , the accountability component Is much more significant . We saw that with the me too movement a few years ago . We've seen it in a number of different , different specters . There is , there are ways for organizations to be canceled out exceptionally quickly If they don't operate in a way that is fair and transparent and do it in a fashion where , when bad things happen , they address the issues publicly and then prepare to move on . Because here's what I will tell you we , we share this with our corporate clients all the time .

Randy Sumner 21:07

Tom , we talked about the fact people want to believe that they can trust these corporations to do the right thing and if they come clean and just own up to it , in most cases People just move right on along . But it is so difficult in a corporate setting to own up to anything because of the legal ramifications you get . In a nonprofit side of things there is , there is a certain level of concern about survival at all if we own up to anything , we acknowledge we're aware of anything . So in these types of environments , you've got to make sure you get past that mindset . Focus on what's right .

Randy Sumner 21:46

Most of the people who are involved in these organizations got into it for all the right reasons . They have all the the the proper justifications for why they're in the position they are . The problem is , sometimes they put that aside because of self-interest come in mind , and you've got to make sure that when you have a crisis arise , how do we make sure that not only that one person is stepping forward and doing the right thing , but organizations as a whole Are recognizing and prepared in advance to know we got to , we got to manage this and we got to handle it properly Right now in order to make sure we can maintain the integrity of the organization .

Tom Mueller 22:24

That's going to do it for this episode of the Leading in a Crisis podcast . Please join us for our next episode , when we'll continue the conversation and our quest for best practices around leading in a crisis . Advertisement: Hi everyone , Tom Mueller here .

Using Case Studies for Crisis Readiness

Tom Mueller 22:42

One of the challenges we face in the crisis space is keeping our teams engaged in thinking about crisis response . One approach I have found to be very effective in that space is using case studies to guide a conversation around crisis readiness . This can be a fun and engaging way to stimulate your team's thinking about crisis , and it can be delivered in as few as 30 minutes . That makes it an ideal addition to a team meeting agenda . One of the services I offer here is leading these facilitated discussions . I can deliver this virtually or in person as part of your next team meeting , and I can guarantee you a fun and engaging conversation . If you're interested or want to learn more , please email me at tom@ leadinginacrisiscom .